Tony Broderick Talks Online

TRANSCRIPT. This is an edited transcript of an on-line conference held July 9, 1996, with Anthony Broderick, former FAA Associate Administrator for Regulation and Certification. Long the FAA's top-ranking safety official, and having earned both friends and enemies for his consistent opposition to excessive and heavy-handed regulation of the airline industry, Broderick took early retirement from the agency at the end of June in the high-level FAA shakeup that occurred in the wake of the ValuJet crash. The on-line conference took place in the CompuServe Aviation Forum (AVSIG), which is the oldest, largest and most active on-line aviation group. It was moderated by Mike Busch, editor-in-chief of AVweb, who has moderated AVSIG's on-line conferences for many years. Broderick has been an active AVSIG participant since the late '80s, the first high-ranking FAA official to make himself accessible on-line. He has remained active on-line since his departure from the agency.

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Thanks to Mike Overly of the Aviation Safety Institute, sponsor of AVSIG, forpermission to make this transcript available on AVweb.


Moderator-Mike:
The witching hour is upon us, so I’ll gavelthis formal conference to order now. Our guest, as you all know, is Tony Broderick. Rick Cremer, you’re first…goahead with your question.

Rick Cremer, FAA HQ:
Tony, are you a bit surprised or noat Mary Schiavo’s sudden departure? Or was it not that suddenand we just didn’t know about it?

Tony Broderick:
Surprised.

Mark G. Monse:
Your feelings on her departure then?

Tony Broderick:
I think people need to do what they needto do. She has had a difficult past pregnancy, and I am sure thatthis was not something that was unnoticed. I also think that shehad gotten her message across, much as I disagree with it.

Mark G. Monse:
Now that Mary Schiavo has left DOT, supposedlyto write a book, what are your thoughts about her departure, andwill we see a book from you?

Tony Broderick:
Mark—Thanks for the compliment! I don’tknow if anyone would want to read the dry logic that I’d contributeto this debate!!

Jonathan G. Regas:
Why won’t the FAA allow tower controllersto make wx observations in real time, or at least allow a conrepsimiliar to a pirep? I am an airline pilot and the wx is not gettingout in real time.

Tony Broderick:
I think it’s not the "FAA", buta question of how to mix the work of observation and ATC. There’sa bit of negotiation to do.

Jonathan G. Regas:
How hard is it to say: wx deteriorating from last observation?

Mark G. Monse:
Since ASOS deployment began in 9/92, theusers have seen an ever increasing number of AO2A sites that rarelyget augmented. With the METAR/TAF changeover 7/1, we have ClassA/B/C airports that finally have augmentation, but at least 1ATC facility has a letter out saying they won’t augment when theweather gets bad cause they’ll be busy. There seems to be a feudbetween FAA/NWS, with the loser being the end weather and airspaceuser. What has caused this, and what can/should be done to stopit?

Tony Broderick:
The NWS needs to economize. So does FAA.That’s the issue. FAA has formed a group to work this issue, andits budget implications. It will take time, and $$$$.

Rick Cremer, FAA HQ:
I am going to put Mark’s questionto our WX person tomorrow and see if we can find out what’s goingon.

Mark G. Monse:
Lemme ask it this way…Has ASOS, as implemented,increased or decreased the quality of wx info to the end user?Please pick ONE.

Tony Broderick:
Mark—I believe AWOS (note the W) has improvedsafety by delivering wx where it wasn’t. ASOS is a pure cost savingmesure, which should be safety neutral.

Mark G. Monse:
How about ASOS? (Note the S.) Should besafety neutral, but is it? Yes or No.

Tony Broderick:
To the extent it doesn’tdeliver what pilotsneed, then it isn’t even maintaining the safety level. But let’sbe sure we don’t ask for a Caddy when a Chevrolet will do.

Mark G. Monse:
Re: Caddys and Chevys, what did we have-before- ASOS?

Mike Overly:
Can the FAA (or any regulatory agency) runeffectively if the top people come and go with presidential administrations?How much influence does an appointed position like Pena’s (forinstance) wield? Should the DOT be removed from oversight of FAA?

Tony Broderick:
Mike—Holy cow!!! I believe that thereis nothing inherently wrong in the political setup. But the truthis that there have been many changes int he past few decades,and people need to decide if they want to put up with constantchange.

Robert E. Mann:
Why does it take such a ridiculously longtime (3-5 months) to get a registration issued? Even state motorvehicle depts do it in 2 weeks.

Rick Cremer, FAA HQ:
Robert, the folks in AFS-700 are shortstaffed just like everyone else. They issue the reg. certs. ifyou have a problem let me know tomorrow and I’ll help you.

Tony Broderick:
I would add that aircraft do not stay onthe ground because of lack of registration. Those who need itget to the top of the queue.

Jamail Larkins:
I am 12 years old now.I would like to bea airline pilot when I grow up. I was wondering could you tellme anything I could do that would help me become what I wouldI like to become. Also does anyone know anyway I could contactDelta Airlines? Do you know anything I could do at a local airprtalso?

Tony Broderick
Jamail—My advice is to study hard, andtake lots of science and engineering course if you can!!

Greggory C. Dunha:
Contact me at <[email protected]&rt; and I’ll giveyou the honest scoop on airline hiring. I’m in the training dept.

Jonathan G. Regas:
I have worked for many places, whereif you questioned safety practices you got disciplined. WhereI work now I have union protection and can walk off a plane whenI please for a decent reason. When will the FAA protect whistleblowers?

Tony Broderick:
Jonathan—Funny you should ask. Today Isaw a note in which the Secretary has finally supported whistleblowerprotection, something I have wanted to do for years. The issueis that it STILL takes courage to work within the system!!

Rick Cremer, FAA HQ:
A comment to Jon Regas. Whistle blowerprotection will probably take an act of Congress. Have you consideredcontacting your representatives with that idea? If Pena likesit, it would be worth a 32 cent stamp or two.

Mike Overly:
Could the public’s perception of the FAA inthe absence of the PROMOTIONAL responsibility be akin to the KGB(i.e.: no civil or federal reprisal for actions)? Do you thinkwe will REALLY see promotion disappear from FAA mandates?

Tony Broderick:
Great question. I do not see much promotionat all in FAA day to day activity. I would challenge all who seeit to name the specific promotional activities they would haveus give up. Uh oh, I STILL said "us." <grin>

Freida G. Johnson:
How likely are we to see you on TV,as one of the aviation experts the networks trot out?

Tony Broderick:
Frieda—One of my favorite people! I’mnot gonna be a talking head!!!!

Tom Bell:
Tony, I went back & read the "zerospeech". What info do you have that you didn’t include inthe presentation that supports your view that the "public"demands zero accidents by air carriers? At what price do youror FAA calculations determine that a ticket price from Fargo toBismark will cost in order to implement the training, maintenance,cost of new aircraft, etc., and to let my own particular point-of-viewshow, how much $$$ does the small 135 operator have to spend tomeet the zero tolerance test?

Tony Broderick:
I think it is self evident that the publicdemands—without understanding the implications—zero accidents.Who wants more?? The price is cheap—an extra few $$ per ticketrasies over 1 Billion!!!

Leo Angevine:
Is there anything that would bring youout of retirement? Many have indicated considerable distress atyour leaving the FAA.

Tony Broderick:
Leo…my local commuting friend…thanksfor the kind comments. I am afraid this move was a permanent one.

Ben Moyle:
If you had it to do over, would you? What different?

Tony Broderick:
Ben, of course I would. This is the bestjob, in the best organization, that anyone could ever ask for.A great team to be a small part of.

PAMA John:
What odds do you give that we will have a "FAA,Inc." in our lifetime?

Tony Broderick:
John, my friend, I give it more than atrivial shot. But the question isn’t FAA Inc., but FAA Ind. <verybig grin> The latter is worth shooting for!!!

Jamail Larkins:
Do you know anything new about the Deltaengine fire? Like what cause it and things like that?

Tony Broderick:
Jamail, what causes tragedies like thatis human error…somewhere…in design or maintenance. Get youreducation and help us get rid of it!!

Howard Richman:
A followup to Mike’s question from before…If the FAA’s charge were only to regulate and not to promote andregulate air travel, do you think that more of the NTSB’s generalrecommendations e.g. car seats for children under two would havebeen mandated?

Tony Broderick:
Howard, one has to ask why we would requireother people to spend their money. Surely it must be to buy somethingthat is worth at least as much as it costs. In many cases likethose you cite, that isn’t the result. Therefore, the Governmentwon’t mandate that the public spend the money to buy that "safety,"because it isn’t worth the price!! So, the answer is: NO, beingrid of "promotion doesn’t alter those outcomes in a rationalworld.

Howard Richman:
I understand your response but I alwaysask myself how many children would have been saved in the UA SiouxCity crash if they had been in car seats.

Tony Broderick:
One, Howard. And at what cost in the pastfew decades???

Ben Moyle
With respect to Tony’s $1 ticket increment buysa billion (for safety), and Richman’s about car seats saving kidsat SUX, the point I think is that if the seats were required,or Tech problems.

Tony Broderick:
Ben, if seats were required, economicswould say that more people would have died because of the coststhey would NOT have paid. That’s the real issue, IMHO!!

Ben Moyle:
…or the seats $1 higher, they (kids, etc)wouldn’t have been there. False economy.

Anne Umphrey:
As an R22 helicopter owner and pilot I amsensitive to the issues of over controlling and over regulating.How can a balance between safety and protection and regulationto the point of strangulation be achieved?

Tony Broderick:
Anne, one whose postings I have greatlyadmired. I wish I had the answer. Rational discourse and continuousquestioning of the Government is the only answer. It’s tough,no matter which side of the fence you’re on!! How’s the R-22??<g>

Anne Umphrey:
Great little machine!!

Tony Broderick:
I’d love to take a ride in BOS some daywith you, Anne.

Anne Umphrey:
Tony, a ride any time you are in BOS.

Kenneth A Snyder:
Tony, do you feel the lack of oversightcould be attributed to congress, i.e. lack of funding for

additional inspectors?

Tony Broderick:
Kenneth… Absolutely a problem!!! We needto recognize the demands we place upon agencies like FAA, andbe willing to step up to them!!!

Michael Daniel:
Tony, two questions: (1) will there becontinued personnel changes below your [former] level in theFAA and (2) with your departure I anticipate a slowdown in theBilateral Aviation Safety Agreement initiatives, would you agree?(Also best of luck to you!)

Tony Broderick:
The Bilateral Aviation Safety Agreementswill go forth and prosper, I hope. I don’t forsee a slowdown.But you have to help us by sticking with it, there in FRA!! Bestof luck to you!!

Jonathan G. Regas:
I am relatively certain that the VJcrew did not put on the oxygen masks, and if so perhaps did nottoggle to emergency on the oxygen regulator, what informationdo you have on this, also were you all aware that the TDWR hasbeen out at DCA?

Tony Broderick:
Jon, I don’t have any info on the masks,nor do I know if we ever will. I didn’t know that TDWR was outat DCA. I’m thankful we mandated it in the 121 operators and thatit works very well in the airplane!!

Jonathan G. Regas:
The terminal doppler wx radar is notin our planes, I fly the DC9, what are you talking about. Alsothe Honeywell windshear detecting system is awful.

Tony Broderick:
Jon—I’m sorry you don’t like the airbornewindshear detectors. They work quite well. Have you been let downby them not working? <g>

Jonathan G. Regas:
Someone was at CLT. Again TDWR is notin the plane, it is on the ground.

Tony Broderick:
Jon, I know TDWR is on the ground. Thethreat is in the air!! That’s where the equipment is that youcan rely upon!!!!

Jonathan G. Regas:
Nevil Shute said airplanes do not crashin and of themselves, perhaps one crash in a thousand is an actof god, airplanes crash because men are irresolute, reckless orcareless. There are improvements to be made, but only if congresslistens.

PAMA John:
Are user fees dead, dying or slithering aroundand waiting?

Tony Broderick:
John, I don’t think user fees are dead.There is a critical need—the MOST important problem we have toaddress—for finding a stable source of predictable funding forFAA. Where else but user fees???? If the users won’t pay, whyshould those who don’t use the system???

Mike Overly:
Do you see need for improvement in U.S. airtransportation on a larger level (somewhat beyond FAA’s immediatecharter)? Example: moves to mitigate airport hubbing inconveniencesto travelers (increased one-stop flights for some markets)? Resultantartificial (but real) ATC congestion at hubs?

Tony Broderick:
Mike, I don’t see that as a problem. Ibelieve that FAA will require high standards, and that the economicsof the system will allow people to develop alternative non-crowdedairports. If safety isn’t the issue, then the economics will workwell!

Mike Busch:
Tony, do you expect your successor at FAA(lord help him) to receive "kick butt" marching orders?Is this the end of the "kindler, gentler FAA?"

Tony Broderick:
Mike, I hope he or she does not see a needto do that. But let me tell you it is not popular to be a goodperson vis a vis the "violater". Things in the popularpress are tough…it’s easier to be a hard person than a niceone!!

Ben Moyle:
Why is how tough things are in the press soall-fired important?

Tony Broderick:
Ben, The press reflects the people—oris reflected by the people. Take your pick. Besides, Clinton readsit!! <g> No kidding.

Ben Moyle:
He can read?

Tony Broderick:
Ben—Of course he can read. My gosh, he’sthe First Lady’s husband!!! <g>

Anne Umphrey:
I have a hard time believing that the pressreflects the people. I think we are driven by what the press thinkswe want.

Tony Broderick:
You may be right, Anne. But how can onetell??

Geo. W. Braly [ADH]:
So, Tony, what is the title of thebook? <g>

Tony Broderick:
The title is "You Won’t Believe This!"

Sue A. Critz:
How is the FAA defining "violator",tho? It seems the resentment from the user side of the house onenforcement comes when blatant and willful violators are equatedwith those who’ve just made an honest error.

Tony Broderick:
Sue, my favorite microbiologist! You areright, and it is just that confusion which makes it tough forthe inspectors in these times.

PAMA John:
Did anybody ask or did you say, where you aregoing and Tony Broderick: I’m gonna take until at least 1 Octoberto ponder things, evaluate, do a bit of short term consultingand see what develops. No plan as such, in any defined sense.

Rick Cremer, FAA HQ:
If the rumor mill around here is evenhalfway right we’re going to see butts moved like never before.I understand that the ABQ FSDO manager was moved yesterday. Itbegins.

Tony Broderick:
Rick—-I think there are good reasons tomove folks, and if this provides some needed "cover",then so be it. But it isn’t necessary to make things "right"in the overall sense. There are good people in FAA, and they needsupport!!

Ben Moyle:
Someone’s confused. There hasn’t been a crashin ABQ this week. (oops)

Tony Broderick:
A few car crashes in ABQ, I’m sure.

Kenneth A Snyder:
Tony, will your book have lots of picturesso pilots can read it, and can I get an autographed copy? <g>

Tony Broderick:
Ken, sure, I’ll put my paw print on one!!<g>

Mike Busch:
Tony, you’re gonna stay active on-line, right?

Tony Broderick:
‘Twas a pleasure to do this. I’m very activeonline, as I’ve got more time now!! <g>

Sue A. Critz:
Tony, you said earlier, you didn’t see userfees as dead. What form do you see them taking?

Tony Broderick:
Sue, I don’t know. There are many possibilities.I wish folks in the community would get together and figure outtolerable ways to pay the bill.

Sue A. Critz:
What ways can you see to reconcile the issueof keeping services affordable for GA?

Tony Broderick:
I know that I will never stand still forGA getting gouged, but that’s a whole ‘nother story…we gottastick together!! There are no really easy ways to keep GA affordable,but it needs to be done!!!

Sue A. Critz:
We’re on the same wavelength here.

Ed Wachs:
Tony— From my pers[ective, the public perceptionof the FAA in the absence of the "promotional" responsibility,will be akin to thr KGB ie: no civil or fed reprisal for thereactions .

Tony Broderick:
Ed, we have a challenge. We need to figureot how to overcome that problem!!!

Bob Hare:
Along with one level of safety, is there anytalk of one level of interpretation among the FSDOs? The inconsistenciesare marked.

Tony Broderick:
Bob, I wish I had an easy answer. It’sa question of better training, which we need to get FAA to fund.

Rick Cremer, FAA HQ:
Bob, we’re doing our best to minimizethat. Better handbooks, etc.

Tony Broderick:
We also need to have more online chat capabilitylike AVSIG!!!!

Ralph Hood:
I believe in user fees, but only if there isa reponsible entity holding the bag of money. Congrees has notproven itself in that regard. witness the trust fund. What canwe do to solve that problem? I’m at

Tony Broderick:
I see you, Ralph. But if the users don’tpay, who should??? Somebody has to!! I agree that we need to workon improving the system.

Michael Gibbons:
Tony, what is your perception of AOPA’seffectiveness as a voice for GA pilots? Do they get the job done?

Tony Broderick:
They are a good voice, but they can besomewhat cantankerous! <g> I find Boyer a very articulateand accessible person, and Steve Brown (his number one person)equally capable. There will always be a creative tension betweenFAA and AOPA.

Anne Umphrey:
We have pretty darn good FSDO here in BOSbut I am distressed of difficult it is to get someone either hereor in Oke City to commit to answering a question.

Tony Broderick:
Anne, ask Rick to help, he’s a great resource!!

Rick Cremer, FAA HQ:
Call me, Anne. Heck, I answer allquestions.

Anne Umphrey:
Okay, will do!

Bob Hare:
Tony, I would like to thank you and Rick forbeing so accessible on the CIS Forums.

Ed Wachs:
Bob, second that!

Tony Broderick:
Bob, not a problem, but a lot of fun andvery educational!!

Rick Cremer, FAA HQ:
Tony, a lot of folks at HQ were sorryto see you go. We understand the politics of it all but stillit wasn’t most of us wanted to see happen. We ALL wish you thebest.

Tony Broderick:
Rick—Thanks. I didn’t want to go now,or this way, but life is real—not a dress rehearsal! I’ll alwaysbe in your corner!!

Mike Overly:
Tony: Thanks for spending your time here tonight— great insights.

Moderator-Mike:
Since we’ve gone from questions to comments,I think it’s time to gavel the formal part of this CO to a close.An edited transcript will be posted on AVSIG and AVweb shortly.Many thanks to you all, and especially to Tony Broderick.Or as USA Today recently called you: Andy.

Tony Broderick:
Good night to all, from Andy!! <VBG>

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