FAA Administrator Steve Dickson says people who disrupt flights will pay a heavy price after a series of incidents aboard aircraft leaving Washington on Thursday and Friday. “The FAA will pursue strong enforcement action against anyone who endangers the safety of a flight, with penalties ranging from monetary fines to jail time,” Dickson said in a statement. Fines for the bad behavior can be as high as $35,000. Various airlines reported passengers refusing to wear masks, making threats toward other passengers and generally disrupting things, according to an NBC report. An American captain calmed things down by threatening to “put this plane down and dump people off in the middle of Kansas.” Alaskan Airlines banned 14 passengers from future flights after the long trip from Washington to Seattle on Thursday, apologizing to the other pax for what they endured.
Meanwhile, the chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee has urged the TSA and the FBI to add those who participated in the violence at the Capitol last Wednesday be added to the no-fly list. Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., said that flights to Washington on Tuesday provided foreshadowing of the events to follow and on Thursday he implored the law enforcement authorities to act. “Alleged perpetrators of a domestic terrorist attack who have been identified by the FBI should be held accountable,” he said.
All of the flights and their passengers and crew made it to their destinations safely but the president of the U.S. Association of Flight Attendants said the “mob mentality” that some of her members had to deal with is not what they signed on for. “It will not happen again,” she said. “There’s a reason that there are strict penalties and fines for failing to comply with crew member instructions. Enforcement keeps everyone safe.”
>“Alleged perpetrators of a domestic terrorist attack who have been identified by the FBI should be held accountable,” Bennie Thompson (D-Miss.) said.
First of all, this was a crowd of 500,000 people with inadequate Capitol security, not terrorism. The guy breaking the Capitol window was not with the protesters around him, and was told to stop multiple times by them.
Also, for over 4 years MAGA supporters were threatened on planes, and almost nothing was done about that. Notice that Thompson is a Democrat. And for 2 months the left burned downtowns without being deplatormed. In fact, it took 2 months for Pelosi to denounce them, while Trump did so the same day.
I see a long-standing problem, but it’s not Trump or Republicans.
“The guy” breaking the Capitol window? Like there was only one guy who did any damage to gain entry, or once inside? There were dozens, maybe hundreds, which is obvious from all the videos that the idiots took, and posted, of themselves. Every single one of them who even set foot inside the building is guilty of “knowingly entering or remaining in any restricted building or grounds without lawful entry”, which is a Federal offense.
The President’s executive order from this summer calls for the Justice Department to “prosecute to the fullest extent permitted under federal law” those who vandalize government property. Federal law allows 10 years in prison as a maximum punishment for such vandalism. (From foxnews.com.)
They’re fortunate that they weren’t shot by Capital Police, who had every right to fear for their safety – as evidenced by the one officer who was bludgeoned with a fire extinguisher and died. (As an aside, if they had been Black Lives Matter rioters, you KNOW the bullets would have been flying – and don’t even pretend otherwise.)
Being banned from airline flight is the least punishment deserved by anyone who set foot in theh building.
We can agree all rioters need to be punished to the fullest extent of the law right ? 10 years for every one of them. Let’s add to the list those who burned down private businesses and setup CHAZ. If it was BLM we would now be governed by the new blue autonomous zone. No, not a single bullet guaranteed, why? Because history repeats itself.
“I see a long-standing problem, but it’s not Trump or Republicans.”
I disagree most vehemently. It is a Republican, but, more so a conservative’s problem. It is not going away, on the contrary, it’s getting worse at light speed. This is beyond scary. It may not be able to be stopped. It’s not looking real good right now.
You lost me. I’d really like to know what conservative ideals were displayed at the riot/protest.
I found you. You’re trying to make this about what constitutes an “ideal.”
Trump supporters announced weeks ago they wanted to do this and then with Trumps encouragement they did it. This is a scientific fact.
Ah, you bring in “science” to describe a mob. Brilliant.
Jack, that has nothing to do with whether the problem is conservatives or not unless you assume that Trump supporters who rioted are conservatives. There is no reasonable basis for that assumption. Republicans and Conservatives and people who work in politics for a living all will agree that not all Republicans are conservatives and vice versa.
For seven months, the press and government has been supporting political violence. If you support something then you get more of it. Anyone surprised by political violence after it has been promoted in society is either disingenuous or room temperature IQ.
The lord god Trump addresses his assembled worshippers who follow his commandments and embrace his infallible word; his sycophantic acolytes embrace his mythology and strive to honor him and his message of salvation by sacrificing the truth about an election–as well as many other truths–and a riot erupts! This IS a long-standing problem, and it IS Trump and the sycophantic Republicans (not ALL Republicans) who wither in awe before his almighty majesty.
Bill M displays his raw prejudice and intolerance as some kind of badge of honor. Be reasonable. All politicians at that level are not to be trusted.
Bless you for being quick and getting such a thoughtful accurate assessment on top on the list.
Every identifiable pilot who stormed The Capitol should have their certificate suspended and aircraft impounded as potential suicide bomb threats. The FBI said right wing white supremacists were the biggest terrorist danger in the USA… and they were right.
Jimbo, two kinds of banners stood out as their holders defecated in the Halls of Congress and searched antechambers and offices hoping to lynch Pence and Pelosi: Trump and the Confederate battle flag. Not BLM and Antifa. Nice try with the “yeah, but the libs and black guys did it first”. False equivalwecies have been the Fox, Trump, Republican sing song too long. You CAN comprehend the difference between insurrection and looting, cantcha? Sedition and civil disobedience?
Unsurprising to see those who got the biggest tax breaks by ignoring the consistently lying and increasingly racist delusional dictatorial behavior of their friend in the White House are the first to attempt to alibi for him and the terrorist scum he has repeatedly encouraged [“Proud Boys stand down but stand by”] and that morning unleashed.
Oops…”false EQUIVALENCIES”
But in a perfect response to Jim B., Tarlov and Le write: “For the past few years, we’ve faced a rash of false equivalences in politics. Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server was equated with Trump’s myriad offenses including, but not limited to, soliciting foreign interference in a U.S. election. For years, Republicans have argued that if we say Black Lives Matter it means we don’t think Blue Lives Matter. And, most relevant to the moment, single cases of voting irregularities ballooned into charges of widespread voter fraud that could alter the results of an election. But what do you do when you’re on the wrong side of a false equivalence — and insurrectionists are on the other side?
That’s what Americans woke up to after a mob breached the Capitol encouraged by the President of the United States and two senators, Ted Cruz (R-TX) and Josh Hawley (R-MO), the disingenuous architects of the seditious objection to the Electoral College certification. Suddenly, a solemn and frightening day in American history was being compared to random acts of rioting and looting over the summer in the wake of the killing of George Floyd. Some conservative lawmakers and pundits even falsely blame antifa for the Capitol coup as a means to exonerate Trump’s complicity.
To be clear: Any rioting and looting is unacceptable, and Democratic political leaders have spoken out against such illegal actions…
But there is no comparison to what happened on Wednesday. First and foremost, the insurrection was sanctioned and supported by the most powerful man in the world. Months of lies about the election results — on top of years of lies about the press, Democrats, and even mainstream Republicans — finally boiled over, and President Trump relished every moment. According to reports, he resisted calling in the National Guard; Vice President Mike Pence ultimately made the call. And in the video President Trump released — hours after the breach of the Capitol began, supposedly meant to quell the raucous mob — Trump repeated his election falsehoods, claiming he won in a landslide before saying his supporters should go home and, crucially, that he loves them.”
Sounds like you love them, too, Jim B. I’m a Republican who loves my Nation more than my party [which made a deal with the Devil and is paying the price] and who knows a lie when I hear one… and a false equivalency too.
“ Every identifiable pilot who stormed The Capitol should have their certificate suspended…”
So the First Amendment should only apply to those you agree with? How very nazi of you.
No one supports the attack on the capital, but the vast majority of those attending destroyed no property, never entered the building, never attacked a police officer and only attended to have their voice heard which is a hallmark of our Republic. Careful about supporting those who suppress the voices of those with which you disagree because you own voice may be the next one silenced!
Bob…
and here I hoped only uberliberals were simpleminded enough to toss around the “NAZI” label with reckless abandon and suffer reading comprehension deficits with their dander up. Thanks for disabusing me of that notion.
Not that facts matter to insurrectionists and Trump apologists, but now that YOU bring it up, demagoguery and mob action with violence WERE early stratagems of Herr Hitler & Co.: Beer Hall Putsch and Kristallnacht come to mind.
And please note I did not suggest protecting the public by preemptive administrative actions against all the Trump-duped airmen at the demonstration. Just those who actually “stormed The Capitol”.
Awaiting your retraction and apology…or, like Trump, will that be “NEVER!!” ?
Hmmmm, storm the capital………..what constitutes storming the capital?????
Simply attending the rally? Walking to the capital? Entering the capital grounds after the capital police abandoned the perimeter? Standing on the capital portico while holding a Trump flag? Entering the building after the police abandoned their posts with no intent to destroy anything? So tell me since you seem to be an expert on suppression of political views where is the line which ends free speech and freedom and enters the realm of the politics of personal destruction?
As I said NO ONE, including myself wanted to see the destruction in the Capital, but free speech must be respected except when it’s someone intentionally destroying property, burning cities, attacking people physically or looting then the line is crossed. So again I ask, in your mind where is the line that when crossed subjects the person to the destruction of their livelihood and seizure of their property?
There’s likely a dozen better words to choose than “storm” unless you are selling something. Of course, that’s what the press gives us.
There’s a lot of people who honestly believe there were voting irregularities. There’s a lot who believe there were none. The experts who aren’t exceptionally partisan on both sides believe there wasn’t enough to change the outcome. There’s a lot of partisan press, but to anyone old enough to remember when the news was only on television a few hours a day, the network news has been shocking.
The same outlets that used to call a crook caught on video “alleged” now use the terms “baseless” and “false” to describe the accusations of voter fraud. If I had been convinced there was a bunch of fraud by present and former public officials, a slick internet news source, or whatever, and I heard that from ABC or CBS I’d be ready to get violent myself.
It’s too bad what’s happened to our media.
I think we all need to step back and renew some of our beliefs in basic American ideals. The ones both sides traditionally believe in.
Eric W, I absolutely agree!
So Bob, still proud of your facile Nazi smear against law enforcement measures which (too ironically) are compelled by Brownshirt behavior? You and Eric must be sport pilots who can’t pass the eye test for Class 3, or neither has TV or internet, or you are in full Trumpian denial mode refusing to concede that The Capitol was “stormed.”
Jeremiah saw you Trump devotees coming:
“Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; that hath eyes, yet see not; that hath ears, yet hear not”
Wise O (ironic name BTW).
You can’t seem to define what level of civil disobedience should lead to the destruction of those unwilling to fall in line with the left and I’m sure you applaud the book burners in big tech censoring all those who disagree with you. So if the Nazi shoe fits, wear it!
“Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech.” Ben Franklin
BTW, I hold a 1st class medical and an ATP with 4 jet type ratings, thanks for asking.
…and yet, Bob, you STILL can’t admit that you&Trump lost an election that was the LEAST flawed in the Nation’s history or recognize an insurrection mob from your TV screen.
Like Trump you refuse to admit error in hurling the “NAZI” label at me for wanting criminals [including murderers] punished …criminals who like ACTUAL NAZIs seek power through intimidation and violence…thus ALSO like Trump you are projecting your own evil attributes onto others.
“Least flawed”?? Now that’s funny right there!! Who knew you are a comedian also? Or do you reside in fantasyland??
Was there “enough” to change the election? Who cares! Real Americans recognize that ANY fraud is too much and should be investigated. Leftists on the other hand only care when the fraud doesn’t favor their preferred candidate.
BTW, I love your politics of envy regarding others taxes and assets.
Wise O.
I have never voted for Trump. Read my post again about who won the election. And then, please realize it’s not wise to make assumptions. I think when you calm down, you might regret these posts. Maybe you should step away from the keyboard? This subject reasonably excites people so I understand.
Think about the fact that you are now insulting fellow pilots over whether “stormed” is the best word to describe the situation. Read again, I did not say the capitol was not stormed, only that it’s not the best word. Since you seem to like German sounding things, look up pictures from when the Soviets stormed the Reichstagg. Now that’s storming brother.
It’s also the reason the word is being used to capture eyeballs and sell soap and even gain influence. Not to be outdone, Senator Schumer is drawing parallels between Pearl Harbor and the riot at the capitol. I have no doubt that being the sort of fellow the Senator is he was quite terrified.
THIS, Eric W., is what you said:
“If I had been convinced there was a bunch of fraud by present and former public officials, a slick internet news source, or whatever, and I heard that from ABC or CBS I’d be ready to get violent myself.
It’s too bad what’s happened to our media.”
That is transparently an attempt to minimize, alibi, or excuse if not justify the insurrection which DID occur…including the murder of Capitol policemen. Doing so is contemptible whether you are a “fellow pilot” or just another deluded, suckered conman Trump devotee.
“I see a long-standing problem, but it’s not Trump or Republicans.”
I disagree most vehemently. It is a Republican, but, more so a conservative’s problem. It is not going away, on the contrary, it’s getting worse at light speed. This is beyond scary. It may not be able to be stopped. It’s not looking real good right now.
I see a problem. It’s words that have lost their meaning. President Trump can be described as a Republican, but he isn’t really a conservative. He’s primarily a nationalist and a populist. You’d think the political science professors would disabuse the population of the unartful “left-right” system from the French Revolution, but they don’t.
So I’m left with no idea why you think the problem is conservatism or why you think conservatism is on the rise.
This country is not in a good way right now. It’s time to step back…
Added to the no-fly list for attending a rally? It sounds like the protesters were right about Government overreach….
If you broke into the capital to assassinate the Vice President you should get added to the No-Fly list because you’re a terrorist, not just because you ‘attended a rally’. Isn’t that what the No-Fly list is for, to make sure terrorists don’t get on airplanes?
The TSA no-fly list has yet to actually stop a terrorist from boarding an American airliner. All it has accomplished is to hassle innocent travelers and has been used by the government to hassle reporters who criticized the government.
First, **prove** that anyone who broke in had the intent to do what you’ve stated. I won’t even state it. Then you don’t have to worry about them being on any list, because they will be in prison.
Excellent point. It amazes me how many people go around screaming about new laws to do this or that to solve a problem when the solution already exists and all we need to do is get the people we hired to enforce the laws to actually do it. That’s not a knock on cops necessarily because often it’s the pols at the root of the lack of enforcement.
Put those that broke the law in jail by making a good case in court. We don’t need to create more hassles for law abiding people.
Attending a rally is one thing, participating in a violent attempted coup against the United States Government – that’s something a bit different.
This thread, which has turned into political argument, started with an article concerning disruptive mob behavior on commercial flights. There is no doubt that this mob behavior fueled a higher level of courage and irrational behavior in its participants. This danger to the flying public must be throttled, and the NO Fly List is the most expedient way to do this. Anyone who was identified as being in the Capitol building should be considered to be a potential terrorist. Airline travel is a privilege, not a right.
The incidents of this type of behavior have been increasing for years and it isn’t one side of the political isle, it’s both. I have personal experience with passengers both right and left verbally attacking the other side on a flight and in every instance it’s handled the same way. Try to peacefully end it, involve the police and then ban them from future flights. Once the police are involved they decide whether charges are justified but when they are the penalties for interfering with a flight crew are severe. The simple act of refusing to wear a mask has resulted in many people being banned from future flights on that airline.
From the article:
Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., said that flights to Washington on Tuesday provided foreshadowing of the events to follow and on Thursday he implored the law enforcement authorities to act. “Alleged perpetrators of a domestic terrorist attack who have been identified by the FBI should be held accountable,” he said.
So we have a Congressman that wants anyone accused by the FBI to be held accountable.
Now you want to weaponize the no fly list for that purpose? And, you want to hide behind the silly right vs privilege canard while throwing this fire bomb?
I wish I lived in your blessed world where non of that sort of thing ever goes wrong, but I never have. I would hope anyone flying an aircraft had a little more skepticism and a lot more imagination towards what sort of things can go wrong. I made my living for years as a salesman who flew weekly. Gate agents knew me, for Pete’s sake. You’d think it was okay if I got put on the list? Do you have any idea how that works. I wasn’t there, but what if I had been? I don’t get any defense? Just lose my livelihood?
Yes. This is America now. Unbelievable.
Or unlike a selfish Trump devotee you could just STFU and to protect the health of the crew and those around you wear the GD mask ….and no smoking.
I’m not a Trump devotee, I wear a mask in public, and I have never smoked anything. What any of that has to do with my post is a mystery. Serious subjects at serious times need level heads, Wise.
Flying is a privilege.
The election was not fraudulent.
Trump is a megalomaniacal self-serving serial liar.
His devotees stormed and vandalized Our Capitol while threatening to lynch Pence and Pelosi.
All your obfuscation and word parsing can’t alter those realities.
So, as we all know, many innocent people, including a Senator, were put on that list because someone with a similar name was suspected. You want to add 500,000 names?
Your grasp on reality is weak.
Also, calling something a privilege rather than a right really doesn’t make much difference to serious people. You sound like a child trying to pretend he’s a lawyer.
Back to basics with Eric W.
Let’s see which of us is the “child” and which of us is grounded in reality.
Are you willing to concede that through 60+ motions and trials before many Trump-appointed judges there has been NO EVIDENCE of widespread or indeed any significant fraud in the 2020 Presidential election?
Are you willing to concede that [as Cruz, Rubio, Graham, Paul, et al warned us he would at the outset], for four years Trump has increasingly acted like a demagogue and been proven a serial liar?
Are you willing to concede that Our Capitol came under violent illegal attack that day and identifiable perpetrators should be arrested and prosecuted ?
Are you willing to concede that there IS a significant difference in practice and in law under The Constitution between privileges and rights, to wit: a privilege is a certain entitlement granted by the state to a restricted group on a conditional basis whereas a right is an inherent, irrevocable entitlement held by all citizens?
Yes, No, or more Trump-like (and thus childish) dodging, denial, obfuscation and word parsing.
Rally by the desperate detritus, dumkopfs and doorknobs of society led into seditious, treasonous behavior by manipulators of reality and truth. It’s been decades in gathering strength and it’s come to roost.
80% of the value of the Stock Market is in the hands of less than 2% of the population. It’s not just Republicans but Democrats, Independents and especially so-called Libertarians too.
This can’t go on like this. Think Russia 1917, it can’t happen here? It is happening here and this is just the opening salvo.
Dat’s a fack, Jack!
In another history lesson I was just explaining to Bob [above]:
“Not that facts matter to insurrectionists and Trump apologists, but now that YOU bring it up, demagoguery and mob action with violence WERE early stratagems of Herr Hitler & Co.: Beer Hall Putsch and Kristallnacht come to mind.”
I know this is a aviation forum not politics but I always believed that the stuff real pilots were made from didn’t allow for disillusionment and false pretenses. Resolutely strong realization of the truth and superglued to the facts and reality of the situation at hand from which to find the solution. Superior judgement that keeps us from situations that require the use of our superior skills, I’ll add and luck.
The Republican Party is Trump,
Trump is America, America is Trump,
Trump Sieg heil!
Jack- you drank too much of that aviation koolade as a student. Pilots put their pants on one leg at a time like everyone else. We all can get suck in by the right slick salesman for the pitch we want to hear.
The last thing we need is more abuse of the unconstitutional and worthless TSA no-fly list. There are more than enough rules and regulations to prevent or stop aircrew interference, all that is needed is to enforce them. Situation is the government on one hand encourages airline travel as routine just like bus or train or auto travel, when in reality it is not. The airlines are afraid to enforce certain rules for fear of losing customers. So the airlines look to the government to do their job for them. The carryon rules are a perfect example. I would never condone interference of a aircrew member, but if the airline keep coming up with rules like the face mask issue then it is up to the airline to deal with it. As long as there is no crew member interference involved, the airline has no business enforcing any certain political view.
So, Matt, you’re upset “if the airline [sic] keep coming up with rules like the face mask issue” = “enforcing any certain political view”
Let me guess: like other right wing anti-vaxxers you think COVID19 is a democratic hoax or like Almighty Trump you don’t give 2sheets about the health of others if your goals and/or revenue streams are impinged by prophylactic measures? Sorry if I err, but sure sounds like it.
I actually not an anti-vaxxer. I want the vaccine, the sooner everyone is vaccinated the sooner the unconstitutional dictatorial various governor dictated mask rules go away. I think enough people have already got vaccinated with very few adverse reactions to it. I would get it right now if I could, along with a FAA mandated 2 days off!
Matt, in reference to mask mandates on aircraft YOU WROTE:
“the airline has no business enforcing any certain political view.”
Can you, like Trump and his devotees, really not see the difference between a public health imperative and a political view?
Are you really so self-centered as to declare “I’m protected, now screw the rest of ya”?
Having read through the comments I was a little taken back by some of the statements for I thought pilots, from PPL to ATP understood the word and practice of judgement.
Quotes in the article used the term “in the building” and also the term “storming the building” is valid as it implies a large group of people and breaking into/forcing their way in.
As to punishment, when I read a close to hyperbolic questions like:
Bob: “Hmmmm, storm the capital………..what constitutes storming the capital?????
“Simply attending the rally? Walking to the capital? Entering the capital grounds after the capital police abandoned the perimeter? Standing on the capital portico while holding a Trump flag? Entering the building after the police abandoned their posts with no intent to destroy anything? ”
Storming was already explained, but I have not heard one report about people who stood outside the building getting identified or arrested. Nor walking to the Capitol Building.
As to entering, the police “abandoned” their position mainly because they faced a few hundred people and were under-manned to stop it. The seditionists broke down barriers which also disrespected the law at that point. Once a person stepped inside a building that at the time was closed, yes Bob, that is breaking the law. After that it is a matter of degree and given the number of videos showing vandalism, death threats, and violence against officers, folks inside made it easy to be identified.
So yes, if the FBI can identify those that broke the law specific to entering the building then at the least they need to be charged and those that did worse need to have more punishment. if a pilot was inside a closed building during a riot, that pilot is not exerting good judgement and at the least should have his/her license reviewed.
In this country, flying, be it passenger or pilot is not a right, it is a priviledge earned. When a civilian or pilot abuses that priviledge by being at the wrong place at the wrong time by conscious choice, yes, that priviledge can and should be taken away depending on the involvement. The No-Fly list is meant to stop those with bad judgement capabilities from getting into a plane in the first place so cabin and flight crews (and passengers) do not need to deal with them.
The FBI is pretty good at their job and I figure they know the difference between walking down a street waving a flag, standing in a public area waving a flag and crossing a barrier into a restricted area waving a flag, beating people, breaking things. If you have to climb a wall to get in, you’re not making good choices.
“ Storming was already explained…”
It was? Where??
So once again, where is the line? Simply attending the rally? Walking to the capital? Entering the capital grounds after the capital police abandoned the perimeter? Standing on the capital portico while holding a Trump flag? Entering the building after the police abandoned their posts with no intent to destroy anything?
Which of the people described should lose their license? For how long? Only with or even without charges filed against them? Is trespassing on the grounds enough? Simply entering the building? Only those who vandalized the building, artwork, offices or attacked officers? Which ones deserve to lose their livelihood, possessions and freedom. What level of participation constitutes irredeemably bad deserving of total destruction of their lives, freedom, certificates, job and assets??
For me ONLY those that are proven to have caused damage to the building or injuries or worse to anyone deserve to be persecuted, the rest were protesting our government a right that is Constitutionally protected for now.
By me in my post, but if you want the official definition:
the sudden forceful attack and capture of a building or other place by troops.
“the storming of the Bastille”
Interesting that the Bastille is used as the example.
Bob, you keep asking the same question even after people answer it and back up that answer so I can only feel your just now being contrary just because.
Trespassing is trespassing whether it is your private property or a public building that is closed and/or restricted. It has been said and acknowledged that had the crowd remained outside the building then this would have a blip on the news. The crowd, like any large protesting crowd was not given access to the insides of the Capitol building. They moment they went past a barricade, the moment they pushed cops out of the way, even if they did nothing but take a picture, they broke the law.
Bob, think of it this way, we have Class B airspace. No plane can enter Class B airspace without permission from a controller. Now, you and a bunch of friends decide you don’t like that restriction and just fly into Class B ignoring the controllers. What do you think will happen? You argue “But we only just flow in a little”, yet Bob, a little or a lot, dems da rules and when you break them you have to pay if discovered. if you don’t like those rules then the proper way to change them is to vote and if you lose that vote, then like it or not, you need to abide by them.
The FBI never targeted people outside the building so quit the straw man argument. Those that went in knew they were (1) following violent people and (2) breaking the law. How much should they be punished is not up to me, but if a pilot gets suspended I would not cry over it. If people get put on a NFL because they violated a trust in our nations capital, again no tears. But yes, if even one person who was standing outside, never went in, didn’t do anything but yell “I love Trump”, that person should not be targeted because they did the right thing and stayed out.
Safe Flying Bob.
Yes, technically one can use the term storming the capitol.
One should not, IMO, at least not a professional writer trying to write an objective piece.
Technically, one could call the Little Sisters of the Poor “pro life extremists “. After all, their position on birth control and abortion is on the extreme end of the spectrum. Of course, it takes a special type of person to go after such a group of nuns.
Meanings of words in dictionaries and thesauruses only begin to cover the full meanings. Until recently, word choice like this along with other ways of stretching a story from accurate and informative to “defensible” was a problem. Now it’s the new standard and we’ve moved even farther away from objectivity.
Anyways, let’s say one disagrees on the fine points of word choice. That’s not a good reasons to make assumptions about the other side and certainly no excuse to insult them.
I’m curious how many people have actually even looked up the word stormed or thought about it’s usual usage to describe a military assault or as hyperbole to allude to such?
“The shoppers stormed the entrance to the mall.” Technically, okay. Likely used as I described.
“The supporters stormed the Capitol Building”. Technically, okay. Likely used irresponsibly for shock value, to puff up an event so one can act like a war correspondent, or for propaganda.
Flying is a privilege.
The election was not fraudulent.
Trump is a megalomaniacal self-serving serial liar.
His devotees stormed and vandalized Our Capitol while threatening to lynch Pence and Pelosi.
All your obfuscation and word parsing can’t alter those realities.
Now you’ve jumped the shark. Nah, you went round the bend hours ago.
“Jump the shark”? How so?
These are definitely NOT “Happy Days”…thanks to you and yours.
Back to basics for Eric W., the inartful dodger.
Let’s see which of us is the “child” and which of us is grounded in reality.
Are you willing to concede that through 60+ motions and trials before many Trump-appointed judges there has been NO EVIDENCE of widespread or indeed any significant coordinated or other fraud in the 2020 Presidential election?
Are you willing to concede that [as Cruz, Rubio, Graham, Paul, et al warned us he would at the outset], for four years Trump has increasingly acted like a demagogue and been proven a serial liar?
Are you willing to concede that Our Capitol came under violent illegal attack that day and identifiable perpetrators should be arrested and prosecuted ?
Are you willing to concede that there IS a significant difference in practice and in law under The Constitution between privileges and rights, to wit: a privilege is a certain entitlement granted by the state to a restricted group on a conditional basis whereas a right is an inherent, irrevocable entitlement held by all citizens?
Yes, No, or more Trump-like (and thus childish) denial, obfuscation and word parsing?
WOW. I could not believe what I was seeing on that fateful day. Sure makes me glad I live in Canada…..
I believe it was Joseph Goebbles (Nazi minister of propaganda) who is credited with the mantra of the Right (or is it Reich) as follows: “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.”
Then you have to ask yourself why President Trump would spend an hour on the phone badgering the Secretary of State of Georgia and thereby incriminating himself by trying to “find” 11,780 votes when the electoral votes from Georgia would not have changed the outcome of the election. Rocket scientist NOT!
Tragically we have now witnessed the logical violent manifestation of nine years of self-serving Trump lies with Our Capitol stormed and ransacked while Our elected officials from Pence to Pelosi are threatened with lynching.
Adding insult to injury, here we see mob apologists and deluded Trump devotees in denial flooding Avweb to insist these were not terrorists but Patriots and they should be able to return next week using frequent flier miles and do it all again….bigger and badder.
I think I missed it. Terrorists? Patriots? what?
Yeah, you did.
Willfully.
Obviously, nobody wants “Air Rage”–but one wonders how this would be enforced.
“On an American Airlines flight to Dulles International Airport earlier this week, passengers shouted and cursed at each other.” To have shouting and cursing at each other, there was obviously two sides of the argument. Were BOTH sides threatened with sanctions? WHO would decide who is blacklisted? Are the passengers identified by name? Were they warned before being listed?
Since so many are “wrapping themselves in the flag”–how about actually LOOKING at the Constitution? “The Sixth Amendment provides that “in ALL criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to be confronted with the witnesses against him.” The clause was intended to prevent the conviction of a defendant upon written evidence (such as depositions or ex party affidavits) without that defendant having an opportunity to face his or her accusers and to put their honesty and truthfulness to test before the jury.”
What about the rights of the innocent? “Convictions”–either monetary ($35,000 fines) or “blacklisting”–without a trial. Bad as “Air Rage” is–look how close this is to stripping the charged of the rights guaranteed by the Constitution. Some of the worst atrocities in world history have been made citing “keeping order.”
Don’t make it political–don’t paint with a broad brush. Apply the very same rules as you would any other disruptive, intoxicated, drugged, or insane passenger–target the specific individual, document it–ask them to stop–use restraints–and if the actions persist, call for assistance from fellow passengers. In the event these measures have to be used–identify witnesses seated nearby.
Perhaps we need “Air Marshals” on flights to and from D.C.? For years, it has been a hotbed of insanity! (sarcasm)
It’s going to be a great couple of months down in Marathon. Wish I was there right now riding my bike down to Key West. Perfect place to escape all of this insanity and it is insane.
Since when is there a defense for bad behavior? Especially bad behavior on airliners! Does freedom allow and sanction bad behavior as a Constitutional right? The article centered around bad behavior, disruptive enough to basically force the “front office” to counter the selfish, childish behavior to essentially say, “don’t make me pull over and come back there”. Since when does bad behavior shift cause/effect and justify such bad behavior assigning blame to one political party or another?
What happened to proper personal discipline, etiquette, and proper public demeanor that is a basic requirement of civility, especially in close quarters such as an airliner? Freedom demands those civil responsibilities which includes being respectful on an airliner…or anywhere else in life. Poor behavior is poor behavior. Its one thing to act like a child because one is a child. Its quite another to be an adult acting like children bullying other children. The stakes are incredibly high exercising poor public behavior today. No one forces the other into poor public behavior. It takes two to fight.
Have we lost all sense of personal standards of civil behavior because we have a political preference? Apparently so. It appears political expression allows for poor behavior in that expression…no matter what.
When I am in the cockpit, anything less that civil respectful behavior is reason enough to terminate the flight and drop off those who have lost all sense of personal responsibility and respect for their neighbor.
And I can see the next argument…what constitutes bad behavior and who legally defines that? There is an old adage worn on many biker T-shirts that says…”If I have to explain it, you would not understand”. If one have to explain what basic good societal behavior is, our country is closer to anarchy than most want to admit.
I am thankful the American Airlines crew threatened to “pull over” unless there was compliance to American Airlines regulations that everybody knew about and agreed to follow prior to boarding. That crew quickly surmised they had their aluminum tube filled with adult children and treated them as such. And their accurate assessment of the maturity of these disrespectful passengers was correct. The “children” responded enough to at least behave minimally civil to complete the flight. Thank you American Airlines having an adult crew demanding adult children to minimally behave as agreed when they voluntarily boarded that airplane.
‘Have we lost all sense of personal standards of civil behavior because we have a political preference? ‘
I would offer no, the political slant is merely the prevalent toy rattle used by the immature for attention. It’s the comfort of the gang mentality, desperately used, because the self-discipline needed for civility is just too damn hard. Freedom to pursue self-improvement and effectively social civility, in my view, needs the perspective of what I call the law of Global Evolution –
-That which presupposes inequality in all things and beings, and their continued effort for balance and self-improvement in life. The illusion of being ‘equal under the law’ is being used temporarily on the way, but as is being shown today, even that deception can fall apart and descend into chaos. It’s the evolved recognition of inequality we need to study, but we seem light years away from that consideration.